Accreditation???? But why?

[Mike NSW]

Why do martial art Instructors need accreditations from 3rd party organisations that claim to be the "governing body of martial arts" ?

[Rathryn]

Just a question would that be 'government body' or 'governing body'?
Anyway, if there's a centralised institute that teaching parties become a member of, this can be an indication of the credability of said teaching parties, provided that the centralised institute adheres relatively strict quality criteria.

[Mike NSW]

"Governing" body. My bad.

Fixed it


Another question to add on to yours, Who from the institute has the power to set the quality of the criteria? I feel that this is important as the governing body usually has no idea about the system that you study/teach.

[Rathryn]

(This is all my own opinion, not the clear-writ truth)
The best way to do that is pick members of the governing body by expertise. These can then pick criteria based on their expertise. Preferably these bodies should then be ordered by style, with a select few from each of these bodies contributing to a larger body that governs these smaller sections.
So basically, you'd have a karatedo-body, a tae-kwon-do-body and a muay-thai body, all of which add a select few members to an overall body.

[Jonathan Forrester]

I'm curious as to who you are referring to. You obviously have someone in mind for this discussion.

[Mike NSW]

I don't fully understand the concept as yet (and at the risk of miss guiding others) it would be unfair to name names considering they're not really here to defend themselves.

But I will say that in Australia you need to be affiliated with a minimum of TWO "institutes" (both with annual fees) just to carry a set of tonfa, as long as they're kept safe in a level 2 GUN locker. But don't be afraid, it's okay if you want to walk around the street with your sword, you don't need to be licensed for THAT. You guys do the math..........

I just don't get why Instructors need a resume 3 A4 pages long that's filled up by a bunch of 3rd party organisations that have never graded in their system. Is it just so that they can become affiliated with 'them' and be honored as being a 'qualified' Instructor? Who decides?????


HELP, I'm banging my head on this one :-)

[Bart Scovill]

That is odd. Of course here in Florida, we can walk around with a gun on our hip. But a tonfa? Now that is dangerous. : )

[Bart Scovill]

Accreditation does add a nice air of legitimacy. But, at least here in America, there’s no single governing authority for the public to rely on.

It would be nice to have a governing body to approve minimum standards of martial arts schools or instructors. It would be very useful, especially for new students, to decide which schools are worth attending. Kind of like the better business bureau. Unfortunately, the philosophical and political differences between arts, systems & styles make objective standards almost impossible. Throw egos and prejudices into the mix, and it’s even that much harder.

So while I think accreditation is a good idea, I don’t think it is or could be fairly implemented.

[Jonathan Forrester]

Accreditation can certainly offer some good things to consumers.

1. You can check on the instructor to see if they are actually affiliated with the organization to see what they offer and how they rate their instructors.

2. You can ensure that the school (or instructor) is really what they claim to be.

I agree with Bart that it is a good idea, but don't think it can be fairly implemented with the various views that each style holds. There is an Okinawan Karate Union here that you can join but I do not believe that they offer you any type of accreditation certificate.

In Shuri-Ryu, we generally have an accreditation with the Dojo Instructor's Certification, or the National Instructor Certification. Neither of these are required in order to run a dojo, but they do offer you a nice certificate which you can display. This also lends credibility to your claim that you are a knowledgeable instructor.

[Jonathan Forrester]

Another good thing for Accreditation in our style. You are required to get certified in CPR and First Aid. (This relates to the discussion by Rathryn about Unconsciousness).

[Yarinage Sensei]

I was wondering when this topic would breach the surface.

Bart-sama, Jonathan-sama I see part of what you are saying, and I believe accreditation should remain at the lowest level based on certain specifications which could be as numerous as the bikini clad women on Daytona Beach during Spring Break. (Too bad I can’t be there).

Although it is a major consumer concern here in the United States, for varying reasons, it hasn’t become a major political issue with the exception of a few states within our Union.

I’m gonna stir the pot with this one, as I have for many years…no offense intended to any one particular person, group, martial arts organization or government agency…but if the shoe fits…GET OVER IT! Because freedom isn’t free!

The thoughts expressed herein are mine, Shimahito Ichi-o Yarinage, and NOT to be construed as the thoughts or views of any one else or a reflection of the management of this fine and awesome forum…so at the end, if any one has issue and you want to take it up…don’t cry to anyone here BUT me…understood?!.

Now that that air is cleared…

Please, do not take offense by how I approach this topic. Please don’t interpret it as demeaning or condescending, I had an old Sensei who would speak to me as though I were in the first grade because he knew full well that I wasn’t on his same page, by analogy and he would bring topics, issues and points of interest to their lowest common denominator so we could build logically to an agreeable conclusion. I initially took offense to his approach, but his verbal and non-verbal skills instantly put to rest my sensibilities. I learned more from that man in three years of mentoring under his watchful eye than I did in the years preceding my studies with him in back in the 70’s.

Peace to all who read my words as I share my feeling on the subject – subjectively in part.


Accreditation is a very complex issue that dates back to many centuries before Christ, yet a simple one. The basis of which, that has become a political hotbed throughout the centuries. This single issue, when applied philosophically to many points has shaped and reshaped not only geo-political boundaries, but created and destroyed nations and peoples. Sometimes “for the common good of the people…” and yet at times “for the common good of a FEW SELECT people”.

This topic has the potential to become POLITICALLY EXPLOSIVE. BE FOREWARNED!!!

Back in time, when a man's word was his bond and it meant something, two could come together with a handshake and accreditation was established in it’s basic form.

Unfortunately for Australia, the political atmosphere (of which I’m only partially familiar) is one in which the government ( of a few) establishes the rules…not the people.

Here in the United States there are still pockets of mature common sense when it comes to the issue of martial arts training.

Mike NSW, accreditation takes many serpentine forms. Some serve a legitimate purpose; some serve the pocket books of a few. Some serve to stifle, period.

What is “accreditation” by definition?

Let’s consult Webster:

Accredit, the root of accreditation is a transitory verb. Coming from ad + credit. Looking further, 1: to consider or recognize as outstanding 2: to give official authorization to or approval of: a: to provide with credentials; esp (especially): to send (an envoy) with letters of authorization b: to recognize or vouch for as conforming to a standard c: to recognize (an educational institution) as maintaining standards that qualify the graduates for admission to higher or more specialized institutions or for professional practice 3: ATTRIBUTE CREDIT syn- see APPROVE

Approve, a verb meaning 1: PROVE, ATTEST 2: to have or express a favorable opinion of 3 a: to accept as satisfactory b: to give formal or official sanction to: RATIFY

Look at the synonyms: APPROVE, ENDORSE, SANCTION, ACCREDIT, CERTIFY mean to have or express a favorable opinion of. APPROVE often implies no more than this but may suggest considerable esteem or admiration; ENDORSE suggests an implicit statement of support; SANCTION implies both approval and authorization; ACCREDIT and CERTIFY usually implies official endorsement attesting to conformity to set standards.

Getting back to Australia’s governmental control of martial arts down under, Mike NSW, your government was allowed to establish an extreme in control of the business of Martial Arts Training by imposing rules which require the people to literally have to “pay” for their freedom. If you can pay the piper, you can dance. If you cannot pay, you don’t play. Bottom line.

I know that statement alone has opened flood gates of response on all sides of various issues from consumer safety, to standardization, to the issue of choice. So let the chips fall where they may (and I will respectfully & happily address those individually as they are brought up).

Example: Idiot #1 has possession of a sword and uses it in the commission or a crime to fulfill selfish needs he assumes he must satisfy. So he asserts himself over his fellow man by brandishing said sword to create fear in the mind of his victim. Victim has no sword, much less the mental or physical capacity to withstand the imposition of Idiot #1. Idiot #1 suddenly realizes that he’s created a situation that satisfies not one but numerous of his perceived needs. Because Idiot #1 begins to enjoy his new position over the victim, he exploits his new status and takes one of several courses of action to continue his imposition and acquire the necessary things the victim possesses to satisfy those needs. I’ll keep it simple…victim is injured and killed by said sword wielding Idiot #1. Hence there’s a homicide and now Idiot #1 has made victims of more people through fear, anger, remorse and a bucket load of other things.

The victim’s family wants recourse. Understood, and rightfully so. Problem is that instead of apprehending Idiot #1 and prosecuting said Idiot in accordance with existing law. The legislative branch of government suffers from “knee jerk reaction” and succumbs to the same line of Idiocy by assuming that taking swords away from everyone and making the village people pay to prove that they are not the Idiots, then they can have their swords back, with provisions.

Now here in lies the problem. You have judicial, legislative and in a lot of cases, executive proponents of those chosen to effect the affairs of the people so that the people are free to conduct lives in a free and comfortable manner, who are not exercising their responsibilities with intelligence. Hence, you have Idiots recognizing that their other Idiot #1 got loose and so they decide to close the barn door after the horses got out.

Extreme analogy, but one replayed countless times in real life.

The electorates of the people are well meaning, but most fail in their jobs miserably. So since they are miserable, the people have to suffer and become miserable like them.

Forget that most people who teach sword technique, and most people who train sword technique, and most people who desire to eventually become a part of the latter and also train are of the presence of mind to conduct their affairs in a reasonable manner…but if a Board can be established, not at the expense of the people (through current tax subsidies), but that that Board can generate it’s own income base (through fees it determines and generates from the “pay to play” rationale, then that Board can be established to run an accreditation process so that only non-idiots can possess swords. Problem here is complex. Now you have a governing body that can establish for itself, by itself, it’s own income and expenditures. Sure it could define standards of conduct for possessing a sword, but in all societies of this globe, those already exist. Please understand this last part…they already exist.

Unfortunately, when a governing group is allowed to go unchecked from inception or even allowed to spawn to begin with, then the people suffer as a whole, because the whole purpose for which the body was created is never addressed anyway. Idiots will always be Idiots and no matter what, some other Idiot will profit by establishing a Black Market to circumvent the rules established by the governing body of Idiots because they can…there’s accredited larceny (i.e., some governing bodies) and then there’s illegal larceny (i.e. Black Market commerce catering to the likes of Idiot#1 because he is an Idiot and should NOT have a sword to begin with, but with no effective legally pre-established recourse taken on the part of the Triune Idiot government to begin with for Idiot #1’s selfish actions) we the people become like idiots because we let it get that way.

If I’ve upset people…I’m not surprised to do so. It upset me when the State of New Jersey attempted to establish a governing body to oversee and accredit Martial Artists as a means to “protect the consumer” when in reality, it was nothing more than an attempt by a select few to place themselves in a position to derive unlimited income from the efforts of the hardworking legitimate Martial Instructors. The “Board” would decide whether or not you were a legitimate martial arts instructor upon standards not yet established until the “Board” was in existence and then established the standard. WRONG!!!

A similar proposition was entertained in dialogue in the State of Florida, which was promptly suppressed by the target audience since they knew from their own experience with the legislative establishment of the Florida Marine Patrol what a farce the Martial Arts Accrediting Board would be. To my Brothers and Sisters there in Florida, do not fall prey to any establishment of any State or Federal Accrediting function or lose your true freedom much as it has been lost in Australia, Canada and Great Britain.

Mike NSW, look at the Sport Diving industry here in America. They govern themselves; have been since the inception of the Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. Standards & Laws were already in place and as time has gone on the State and Federal governments conducted their affairs appropriately and the Sport Diving Industry has conducted theirs. They dialogue and lobby as necessary, but neither interferes with the other needlessly.

Mike NSW, Australia has established by choice, it’s rules on Martial Arts affairs. Can’t help but explain from an American’s perspective why. By giving the definition of ACCREDITATION, I hope it helps you understand the position of your people down under.

We have no such mandates or laws here in America. The American Martial Arts community as a whole won’t permit it. (Although I have met a few self seeking individuals who have expressed their desire for such if they could place themselves in the position of salaried board member at the expense of their fellow American Martial Artists, misinterpreting their actions for Free Enterprise on their part). Nor will we if common martial sense prevails, but alas…it appears that soon, very soon, we here in America may suffer the same fate as you our Martial Brother Down Under.

When righteous people FAIL to safe guard their way of life with a vengeance…and I do mean a vengeance (not necessarily physical), then that people deserve to lose what they have. Hard words my Brother, but the Truth is the Truth.

Breathe…

Now, You can get your sword and carry it under the burdensome conditions established by your Laws, until you can over rule those points of law legislatively.

My prayers and thoughts are with you.

One suggestion, migrate to America, you already speak the language, and study your art here with us under the banner of Freedom. Best any of us can offer you.

To my Brothers& Sisters here… I hope Mike NSW’s question stirs the Cranial Juices with Synoptic Insight. I’m looking forward to who’s been in class lately.

Warmest Regards to All,

Yarinage Sensei

[Jonathan Forrester]

LOL - Wow - I kind of like that. I could only add what Mark Twain said. "Suppose you're an idiot, then suppose you're a member of Congress - but then I repeat myself...."

Yarinage-Sensei: you certainly didn't irritate me in the least. And my position only supported your viewpoint. We in the Shuri-Ryu community police ourselves. The requirement for the Dojo Instructor License is quite simple -

1. Be a Black Belt recognized on the Shuri-Ryu Yudansha Kai Lineage Chart
2. Take the written test (supervised - no, you can't mail it in...)
3. Have a current CPR Certification certificate
4. Have a current First Aid Certification certificate

If you pass the test with 100% (nothing less will pass), then you get the certification. No outsiders decide - it is all within our own community.

[Yarinage Sensei]

Johnathan-sama,

We are of like spirit, I believe. Many posts I have passed up because my responses would have only "ditto'd" yours.

Bottom line, I don't feel any form of accreditation would be of value except in the realm of tournament officiating. System, style and in-house "standardization" establishes more than enough accreditation in my opinion. Nothing should be as much a source of pride as an instructor's own personal standards and demonstrating the ability to share with others in a professional, consistent manner.

Your outline pretty much covers it if presented to me as a happy consumer. The litmus test in reality would be met in observing an instructor's class. If I like it, I would want to be in it. If it doesn't please me, I'm out the door.

The numerous Ryu of the Tamanegi Do follow an internal accreditation that would meet International Standards. This is as a result of the fact that we have taken our curriculum, tasks and procedures and adapted the ISO's standards to our organization. We are not accredited by the ISO, but we have established our criteria upon many standards found within the DoD (Department of Defense) and the International Standards Organization.

Our instructors are required to maintain individual POIs (Plans of Instruction) which are subject to specifically standardized criteria and each Instructor as well as their dojo is required to satisfactorily pass a Standardization & Evaluation inspection based upon the standards established (Modeled after similar standards of performance of military and civilian pilots.)

I would like to add that as a whole, we humans seek acceptance on many levels. Martial arts instructors and dojos are no different. That's why we align ourselves with various organizations, because the are many unspoken standards that must be met to remain a part of the organization. Accreditation comes subliminally, based on continued association. If my karate emphasis were of the Shorin persuasion, then I would align with you and your organization, seeking acceptance, (usually based in large part by time) and indirectly receiving that simply because of the strength of our friendship and association. The fact that we would be working closer together attending more and more of the same tournaments and seminars. Not wanting to be embarrassed I would seek to change any flaws in my performance, technique and training requirements to fall more in line.

Mike NSW, that's basically how a lot of accreditation is accomplished at the simplest level here in the United States.